What is the best way to end the Macedonian naming dispute, that would be acceptable for both sides?

Everything is here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_n...





I want you to give your thoughts and ideas on this. Please, if you are a citizen of Greece, or a citizen of the Republic of Macedonia, please keep your objectivity towards the matter and propose a solution that is acceptable for both sides concerned. Mostly I'm interested in views from neutral standpoints.

What is the best way to end the Macedonian naming dispute, that would be acceptable for both sides?
I think the best solution would be the one someone proposed also.The two countries should sign an agreement saying that if Greece accepts the name of Republic of Macedonia it is forbidden for the goverment of Fyrom to make any territorial claims to the region of Greece called Macedonia in the future.Not only real threats but it should not even be mentioned.That way we Greeks won't have reasons to feel unsettled by the name change and people from Fyrom can have the name they so desire.


Personally I don't understand our side(greek) nor the side of Fyrom.We are being stubborn and don't want to accept something that's been done alreally(most countries have accepted and recognized the name R, of Macedonia) and people from Fyrom don't want to add a characterization to their name(like Northern Macedonia) which is what the greek goverment asked them to do and would solve the problem(and let's be honest,nobody would call it northern Macedonia but plain Macedonia)...Personally this "fight" between goverments reminds me of children fighting in kindergarten for a toy...and the sad thing is it affects both sides and both countries' citizens and makes them feel negative about each other which is sad since we are neighboors and nothing will ever change the fact we will always have to deal with each other...It's kinda like family,you can't choose your family but you are stuck with it so you might as well get along...
Reply:Skopjians already have claims to Greek Macedonia. How is it possible to negotiate and "sign agreements" if they already lie about their past and Greeks? Report Abuse

Reply:Unfortunatelly, we have already signed an agreement with Greece, with which we agreed to use temporarily the name former yugoslaw republic of Macedonia in the international institutions, and they promised not to block our integration. Report Abuse

Reply:But they have broken that agreement with the veto for our Nato membership. Report Abuse

Reply:We don't lie about our past. It is Greece who lies. The territory of northern Greece has never before been a part of Greece until 1913. Report Abuse

Reply:But unfortunately there's been almost 100 years since than, the Macedonians were violently removed from there, so we don't need that territory anymore. Macedonia has no territorial claims toward Greece. Remember this. Report Abuse

Reply:If that is what scares Greece, than we don't have a problem at all. I'm sure every Macedonian will agree that we don't want the greek territory, but Greece has to stop blocking our name, which we have and use forever. Report Abuse

Reply:And, just stop using Skopje when you are talking about my country. Skopje is our capital, and not all people are from Skopje. Report Abuse

Reply:And by using the nick "Makedonija" you prove again that you are using the name you promised not to, since your people signed agreement to use FYROM.


Am I right? Report Abuse

Reply:"unfortunately you signed that agreement" you already broke so many times...You still want us to trust u that u wont have claims to our Macedonia when at the same breath you claim (falsely)it was your land??? Report Abuse

Reply:Greeks are not stupid (or asleep) if thats what you are hoping for. And your name is not Macedonia, until you think of another name, we can call you Skopjians. If you dont like it, then hurry up and think of something else Report Abuse

Reply:Hahahaha. I can use whichever nick I want. Who are you to tell me? Report Abuse

Reply:We signed an agreement, and if you read it, you can see that Greece is the one who broke it. Report Abuse

Reply:We are members of UN as former yugoslaw republic of Macedonia. Report Abuse

Reply:I don't like it, but that's the agreement, and we appreciate it. Report Abuse

Reply:With that agreement, our constitutional name is Republic of Macedonia and that's the name we, the Macedonians can use. I cannot use any other name, but that name Report Abuse

Reply:But with that same agreement, which Greece signed, they agreed not to block our EU and NATO integration. They vetoed us in Nato. Greece broke the agreement. Report Abuse

Reply:So, you are not right. We didn't agreed to use FYROM. We agreed to join international institutions under that name Report Abuse

Reply:Other thing. Northern Greece, was Macedonian land, since the dominant nation until the exodus were Macedonians, as I'm. All of the cities, villages, rivers, lakes, had Macedonian name Report Abuse

Reply:Vergina, for example, the nick you use, was Kutles. But I won't tell you to rename your nick to Kutles. It is your own right to chose your name. Report Abuse

Reply:And, it is wrong in the first place that Greece has something against our name. But even worst, you don't have the right to choose a name for us. We are not Skopjians. Report Abuse

Reply:It is insulting! Report Abuse

Reply:Listen "macedonian boy", we can go back and forth arguing 4 ever, is not helping your country no matter how much you were brainwashed that you have ties with Greece. Report Abuse

Reply:The insult is for you and your people to come in our travel section and rub in our faces that you are "macedonians". So dont tell me you are insulted by not being allowed to use a stolen name Report Abuse

Reply:We aren't stealing our name. On the other side, Greece stole our land and committed genocide toward the Macedonians. So, be careful how you use the words, they can always be turned against you Report Abuse

Reply:Even though I'm insulted by your arguments that I'm not suppose to use the only name my country has, I'm even more insulted by your attempt to impose some other name to me Report Abuse

Reply:In 21st century is out of date to deny somebodies right to self determination Report Abuse

Reply:Mpla, mpla, mpla, mpla, mpla mpla.....enough aready.


Of course, none of this would have happened if your private email was available (but why should you? is more fun to insult us in our home than privately,right?)


No more answers for you, done w this "question" Report Abuse

Reply::) Luckily we don't need visa for yahoo answers. And this is the politics section, not the travel section. And I would be more than happy to give you my private mail, I'm sure you are beautiful and smart girl, but your email is not available too Report Abuse

Reply:You managed to be on my blocked list, congrats!


Now, if you are good, stay there quietly, some day you may be rewarded with a pretty girl talking to you again.... even if it's just here... or your dreams:) Report Abuse

Reply:Yours "bla,bla,bla" (even illiterate) shows the Greek attitude towards democracy. Report Abuse

Reply:I thought you said no more answers :)


But I knew I shouldn't trust you.


And you may start thinking on other actions but blocking, since it seems is the only thing you know. Report Abuse

Reply:I like pie Report Abuse

Reply:Do you really care or is this question (typical of all questions in the politic section) was asked so your friends and contacts can answer. Because so many of them turned out in record numbers.





It doesn't solve anything here, that is my neutral opinion.
Reply:I'm so neutral I can only say they should make more nuts to stimulate the economy.
Reply:this is supposed to be a neutral thought on the matter mentioned in the question, not a fight!!! Geeeez, read the question properly and answer accordingly guys... no fight!! Politics is not the way it should be anymore. People now fight for the wrong reasons... look at the Macedonians fighting with the Greek and vice versa. This is sick and we will all die and leave this land we are foolishly fighting for. Thanks for asking!!
Reply:Acceptable solutions could have been :


North Macedonia


Upper Macedonia


Slavic Macedonia


Vardar Macedonia


I am sorry to see that there seems to be an overwhelming nationalism based on unhistorical and propagandist views.


And it seems that the Slav-Macedonians who are looking for a solution are losing.


And that is bad for their country. Not for Greece.
Reply:Objectively, the area of FYROM includes a small part of teh geographic area of Macedonia. So, they can't claim to be called plainly "Macedonia", this would cause a confusion to the very least (let alone usurping history, motivating inexistent territorial or minority claims, etc., which you can see very clearly in the answers of Skopjians before me). As someone said above, yes there are 2 Koreas, etc., but they are called North and South to distinguish them, or New South Wales and Wales, etc. So, I believe a term stating the actual truth, like "Northern Macedonia" or "New Macedonia", or Macedonia Vardarska, which is the accurate geografic term for the area, would be acceptable. Apparently it is not pleasing for either side, but Greece is ready to accept such a name, meeting the other side in the middle. I don't see why the other side wouldn't like that, honestly. After all, geografically it is beyond any objection that the part in Greece is also Macedonia, and they are north of that, so what is more objective than North Macedonia?





From the answers of people from Fyrom above, you can see who is spiteful and wants to cause problems-suggesting even war!
Reply:So far you heard from the people living in FYROM.


As you notice, most have provocative avatars with the Vergina's sun and name like "alexander" or something similar.


Someone even mentioned that since there are 2 chinas, 2 carolinas, dacotas, virginias, etc, why not 2 Macedonias.


The answerer forgets that we talk about 2 totally different countries located next to each other,(contrary to the other mentioned states and countries that are identical) with the one newly formed having historical claims and territorial interests.


Acceptable solution from the Greek side:


The one and only acceptable solution will be the new country (formed some 20 years ago and sneaking in our history, claiming Alexander their own, teaching their kids in schools the same and talking about merging with our Macedonia), that country should drop any claims to their name, our history and our past.


We all know they occupy a small part of our old country (another part belongs to Albania and Bulgaria) and we keep quiet about it.


Watch out when we realize enough is enough and claim our land back.





Edit: to the pussycat with the lions face under me:


You want to nuke Greece? Well,you show your real colors and your hatred for Greece and Greeks.





As for the suggestion to name this new country Northern Macedonia or Vardarska Macedonia, this is NOT the official line of Greeks and the answerer speaks for herself. Anything with the name Macedonia in it, is totally unacceptable to Greeks.


If someone asks why, I'd suggest they look into some of the answers here. Not long ago, FYROMians kept quiet and never even had any historical claims related to Alexander or parts of Macedonia.


Look at them now, 5 years down the road. Imagine what they'll think of the next 5 or 50 years!!!


Macedonia is, was and will be Greek as long as there are Greeks.


Skopjians, find another name to stick, this one is taken!
Reply:I think that both parties have choosen wrong ways of approaching each other.


FYROM:


1.nurtured a very peculiar hate for the Greeks teaching the people that Greeks took their territories and was unfair to them. But,we are talking about a period in which exchanges of population had been made in Balkans even towards Bulgarians and Greeks. There were places with many Greeks (Asia Minor), other with many Slavs. Everyone suffered...an unfairness.


2. FYROM as a state exposes its people creating a connection between them and ancient Macedonians. Can't you see that you make a full of yourself claiming that you are descentants of Alexander and so on? I don't think that claiming the name of Macedonia is so tragic, but trying to distort history -when everyone in the world knows the trueth- is at least ridiculous and VERY WRONG.


GREECE:


1. Greece denys the identity of the FYROM people. It is a little bit hard for this people to suddenly begin to wonder "What am I?", I can admit that noone has the right to do this thing, but Greece doesn't want to have probleme, like Serbia with Kossovo for example. One thing that Greece made wrong, was that it's politicians were very stiff at the beginning of the probleme and we could now have a solution.





So, I believe that FYROM is the one that must make REAL STEPS, stopping the distortion of history facts at first. FYROM has nothing to lose from a war, but if it likes to really become a developed country it should choose other ways to achive it than claiming Greek territories.


I do believe that it is unfair for them to "take" the name of Macedonia without any kind of other definition, but I believe that all this people is used to ...use the name of "Macedonia" and "Macedonian" and a proper name would be North Macedonia, Upper Macedonia, Nova Macedonia, (not to mention SlavoMacedonia, they won't like it) since there is also Macedonia in Greece.
Reply:People living in a specific region can name their territory anything they like. There are two Koreas, two Congos, two Chinas, two Dakotas, two Carolinas, two Virginias, etc. I see no reason why there cannot be two Macedonias.
Reply:As I am an Orhtodox christian so this is from my perspective a family fight. With my co religonists fighting ove the issue


I see the logic on both sides of the argument


It comes to one of ethnic identiry- there are three regions that could calim to have the name Macedonia


Blagoevgra province in Bulgaria which has been called Pirin Macedonia


the Republic of Macedonia which was historicaly called vardar macedonia


and Ageian Macedonia in Greece. We could play naming games for centuries with out results as long as the common deffention of a Macedonian amoung the people of the Macedonias dose not alow for them to be devided.


The first step to setteling the issue is to improve relations and do things such as estalishing a free trade zones with limited travel restrictions so every one has a veted interst in sharing th macedonian name.
Reply:I support the Macedonian position. The people of Macedonia have a right to name their country as they wish. The Greek opposition is rooted in the fear that in the future the Republic of Macedonia will lay claim to a greek state with a lot of Macedonians in it.





Too bad.





If at that future date part of Greece wants to break off and be their own nation or join the R of M, that's their right too.





If people in this world are to be free, then they must be free to choose with whom they wish to allign themselves and what the name of that alliance will be.
Reply:i don't think there's any name that would be acceptable for the both sides. The farthest Macedonia can go is to agree with the double formula. Anything more than that is just too much











GOXY Please don't answer Q that does not concern you!! You should try bothering with your country and your problems...
Reply:I don't think there is such way since Greece doesn't have problem with our name, but with our identity.





They say they are afraid of the Macedonian irredentism. I know, Macedonia has no territorial claims toward Greece. Why don't they agree to sign an international valid agreement in which Macedonia will promise not to attack Greece and take it's territory.





We have at least the same right to the name Macedonia as Greece has, since our territory 100% belong to the territory of the geographical region of Macedonia. If the ancient Macedonians have nothing with the modern Macedonians ( which I don't agree), they either don't have anything in common with the greeks. We know Demosten said that.





So why we shouldn't use the name which we use forever? They say because we want their territory. Yes, I so much would like to see the Aegean Macedonia in one united Macedonian state, but it won't happen. Mainly because Greece has violently removed most of the Macedonians out of there.





No one can give me name. It's forbidden! Even I don't have the right to decide what will be my country's name. It is given long before, a lot of blood has been shed for that name, and no one has the right to change it.





So, the only solution could be, greeks accept the facts, agree with our name, the one and only we have, and we can promise they don't have to worry about their borders. Everything else, is only a wish to show who is stronger, a self-indulgence which cannot and won't be accepted.
Reply:Macedonians have already chosen their name. Or, are they not sovereign ? Not independent ?


EU is justifying the genocide did by Greece over Macedonians.





Comedy: Greek by Name


By Hans Lothar Schteppan


February 12, 2008


Source: Forum Plus, Number 123, 01.02.2008





The satire "Greek by name" from December 12, 2007, is characterized as successfully funny and even humourous, sadly however reality is seldom a "comedy".





If for the Greeks the "name" issue REPRESENTS "Support for the State Philosophy" which is overly excessive, then for the Macedonians it represents a risk of "losing their country and ethnic existense".





Macedonians have been using this name for at least 1,500 years or since many tribes settled the Balkans and mixed with the indigenous people. Greeks on the other hand have gained Macedonian territory, specifically their northern province which for the longest time they called "Northern Greece" only 95 years ago when they took possession of 51% of Macedonia in 1913. Only in 1989 did Greece change the name of its northern province to "Macedonia" under the motto "Attack is the best defense".





It is absurd that Macedonians are even talking to the Greeks knowing that they have little chance of making progress in these unfair negotiations. Thanks to Greece's threat of veto and its irresponsible use of it as well as its position in NATO and the EU it has all the help it needs from the European Community to hold Macedonia back as long as it wants.





Greece very cunningly and abruptly rejected Macedonia's name in 1992 in Lisbon before anyone had a chance to "examine the facts". This rejection also came with misinformation and confusion leading the unaware European ministers to come to the wrong conclusion. Greece lead the European Community into believing that the name "Macedonia" was of no importance to the Republic of Macedonia because allegedly this was a name created by Tito when Yugoslavia became a state of republics in 1944. Thus Greece's strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies. The EU states, without consulting historical data and without examining the facts, were quick to take Athens's side. A similar scenario was repeated in 1993 when Macedonia applied for membership into the United Nations. It seems that justice is not important these days and the sacred Greek might is always placed ahead of Macedonia's right.





If we examine past approaches to the name issue taken by our American "mediator" of the UN, we will find that the whole process is biased in Greece's favour. Actions taken during briefings in Skopje in 1994 and 1995 at best can be described as "desperate".





With the exception of naming the Skopje Airport "Alexander the Great", every gesture Macedonia made in Greece's view should be positive but from what experience has shown Greece has been relentless and has, without thinking twice, used all ammunition delivered to its hands against Macedonia.





Macedonia on the other hand has a great heritage which modern Europe considers to be the cradle of western culture. Ironicaly even though it is well known that Alexander the Great was Macedonian, no one complained when Greece named its airport "Alexander the Great" in late 1989. What justification did the Greeks have? That Alexander the Great spread "Hellenism" to the world during his expeditions? If that were true, and no one can deny that modern Europe in its entirety has profited immensely from Hellenism, then why is there not a single European nation (besides Greece) Greek today? Why is there not a single nation outside of Europe, where Alexander ventured, Greek today?





When Slav tribes were settling the Balkans in the 6th and 7th centuries AD the ancient Greeks had already abandoned Greece and others settled in their place. For well known reasons the Greeks left Greece at the end of the 4th century but the descendents of the ancient Macedonians remained all while Macedonia was a Roman province. Thus the descendents of the ancient Macedonians lived in Macedonia as the descendents of the ancient Thracians lived in Thrace and as the descendents of the Ancient Epirians lived in Epirus.


In time these people assimilated with the Slav tribes who in turn adopted those lands as their home and left their genetic markers in the modern populations. So today we have Slav and ancient Macedonian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Macedonians the same as we have Thracian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Bulgarians and modern Turks living in Eastern Thrace. The same can be said about the modern Greeks and Albanians who carry in their blood the genetic markers from the ancient Epirians.





Even though it is well known that the Turko-Tatar Bulgars settled the Eastern Balkans 150 years after the Slav tribes and took the Slavic language from them, does not prevent the modern Bulgarians from asserting that today's Macedonians allegedly speak "Bulgarian".





Further forward in time, during the 9th century according to George Shtatmiller author of the book "History of South-Easter Europe" the Greeks, drawn by the Slav settlements of Greece, returned to their former fatherland and assimilated the Slavs and Albanians settling that region. So how can the Greeks then claim to be related to the ancient Macedonians?





Contrary to any Greek assertions, Greeks in reality never settled Macedonian territories, not in ancient nor any other time until the 20th century. Macedonians on the other hand have conquered and have occupied Greek lands. The ancient Macedonians, through the League of Corinth, held hegemony over the Greeks for over 120 years during which time they also occupied Athens for a short period.





Thus prior to the 20th century Macedonia was never Greek, not during Roman times when both Macedonia and Greece were Roman colonies, not during the Middle Ages, not during Ottoman times and certainly not until after the 1912, 1913 Balkan Wars when Greece, for the first time, by virtue of conquest, was awarded Macedonian lands including Solun and parts of Thrace. And this Greece did not do alone but with help from its neighbours Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro and with the blessings of the Great Powers. Thanks to the Great Powers, Russia in particular, for their support of the four Balkan monarchies which united and declared war on the Ottomans without themselves being swallowed up by Austro-Hungary or Romania.





Let us also remind the world that the Thracians and Epirians disappeared after 1913 only as a result of brutal hellenization at the hands of the Greek state, brutal Bulgarization at the hands of the Bulgarians and Islamization due to Ottoman influence. The Macedonians occupied by Serbia to some extent survived Serbian attempts at assimilation and began to regain their Macedonian consciousness under the cover of Yugoslavia.





It is sad to say that Macedonia's annexation in 1913 happened with the blessing of International right which now reminds it of the shame it committed. It is not fear of the Macedonian hammer that Greece is afraid but of the fear of facing its own shame in public.





As protectors of the European heritage which has flourished for centuries, European Union parliamentarians should be ashamed of forcing Macedonia, a state which in the past has done so much for Europe, to accept a farcical name like "FYROM". This again proves that Europe values business and money far above justice, truth, etiquette and morality.





If this small country has learned anything, it has learned how unfair Europe can be. The 2001 Ohrid Agreement was forced upon it by Brussels bureaucrats without even examining the facts or consulting history. Europe has shown no care for the dangers under the sword of Demiclis it has created for this young state. With this kind of attitude how does Europe expect to hold a united existence?





The only option Macedonia is left with to protect its rights is to present its case to the international community.
Reply:The World does not know Greece and Greeks, we do.


They deny our right to self determination, they deny existing the Macedonian national minority in Greece, they deny the right to free moving to Macedonian emigrants-refugees from the Greek civil war 1946-49, who are not allowed to visit the graves of their relatives in Greece (Aegean Macedonia)... All of this was a forbidden question during the communist Yugoslavia, cause of the will of Tito to have "good neighbor relations to Greece".





Change of Toponym





Immediately after the Bucharest Peace Treaty, when it became quite clear that Greece had usurped territory which did not belong to it either by the ethnic structure of the population or geographically, the Greek government conducted a census of the population in the new lands. According to this census the Aegean part of Macedonia numbered 1,160,477 inhabitants. In 1917'the law known under the number 1051 was passed, article 6 of which established the formation and functioning of the town and village municipalities of the New Lands. On 10th October 1919 the Commission on Toponym in Greece issued a circular letter which contained instructions for the choice of place-names. The circular letter from the Commission was immediately followed by a booklet by N. Politis entitled "Advice on the Change of the Names of Municipalities and Villages" (Athens, 1920), published by the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Greece. At the same time, special sub-commissions were formed in the newly-established districts in the Aegean part of Macedonia, whose task it was to study the problem on the spot and to suggest new names for the villages and towns in the respective districts. In the spirit of this letter, in 1922, the Commission on Toponyms of Greece issued a more detailed statement under the number 426. This Commission had intensified its activities and was now giving concrete suggestions. However, owing to the Graeco-Turkish War, the still undefined peace agreement with Turkey and also the great migrations of the population between Aegean Macedonia and Turkey and the forced movement of an estimated 33,000 Macedonians to Bulgaria (imposed by the Neuilly Convention, signed by Bulgaria and Greece, for "voluntary" resettlement) the process of renaming was slightly slowed down. Thus in the period from 1918 to 1925 inclusive, 76 centres of population in Aegean Macedonia were renamed: in 1918 - one; in 1919 - two; in 1920 - two; in 1921 - two; in 1922 - eighteen; in 1923 - eighteen; in t924 - six and in 1925 - twenty-six. But as soon as the processes of migration came to an end and the position of the state was strengthened, and, following the legislative orders of 17th September 1926, published in the "Government Gazette" N2 331, 21st September 1926, and the Decision of the Ministerial Council dated 10th November 1927, and published in the Government Gazette S2 287, 13th November 1927, the process of renaming the inhabited places was accelerated to an incredible degree. Consequently, in the course of 1926, 440 places in the Aegean part of Macedonia were renamed: 149 in 1927, 835 and-in 1928, 212, i.e. in only three years , 1926, 1927 and 1928, 1,497 places in the Aegean part of Macedonia were renamed. By the end of 1928 most of the centres of population in the Aegean part of Macedonia had been given new names, but the Greek state continued the process by a gradual perfection of the system of renaming, effected through new laws and new instructions. On 3th March 1929 the special law known under its number, 4,096, was passed and published in the "Government Gazette" S-- 99 of 13th March 1929. This law contained detailed instructions and directives as to the process of renaming places. By the force of this law and the earlier instructions, amended by Law Ng 6,429 of 18th June 1935, Law S2 1418 of 22 November 1938, Law N2 697 of 4th December 1945 and many other instructions, legislative orders and other enactments, the process of renaming the inhabited areas has been carried on to this day, taking care of each and every geographical name of suspicious origin throughout Macedonia, including entirely insignificant places, all aimed at erasing any possible Slav trace from the Aegean part of Macedonia and from the whole of Greece. With these laws, instructions and other enactments, the district commissions in charge of the change of place names and the Principal Commission at the Ministerial Council of Greece (established as early as 1909) enforced many more changes. In the period from 1929 to 1940 inclusive, another 39 places in the Aegean part of Macedonia were renamed, and after World War II (up to 1979 inclusive) yet another 135 places in this part of Macedonia were renamed. An estimated total of 1,666 cities, towns and villages were renamed in the Aegean part of Macedonia in the period from 1918 to 1970 inclusive. This number does not include those inhabited places the renaming of which has not been announced in the "Government Gazette", which has been taken as the exclusive source for the figures and the dynamics of renaming given here by years and districts. Neither does it include the numerous Macedonian settlements named after saints, the names of which official Greece simply translated from the Macedonian into the Greek language.


Renamed centres of population in the Aegean part of Macedonia by district


1. Ber - 49; 2. Negush - 16; 3. Greven - 82; 4. Voden - 34; 5. Enidzevardar - 56; 6. Meglen - 48; 7. Drama - 233; 8. Kavala - 24; 9. Pravishta - 36; 10. Sari shaban - 38; 11. Tasos - 3; 12. Katerini 42; 13. Kajlari - 32; 14. Kozzani - 88; 15. Naselichka - 72; 16. Gumendze 29; 17. Kukush - 179; 18. Kostur 104; 19. Lerin - 101; 20. Valovishta 84; 21. Zihneni - 20; 22. Nigride - 35; 23 Ser - 55; 24. Lagadin 76; 25. Salonica - 78; 26. Larigovo - 6; 27. Halkidiki - 40; or a total of 1,666.


Renamed places in the Aegean part of Macedonia by years


1918 - 1; 1919 - 2; 1920 - 2; 1922 - 19; 1923 - 18; 1924 - 6; 1925 - 26; 1926 - 440; 1927 - 835; 1928 - 212; 1929 - 9; 1930 - 7; 1932 - 6 1933 - 2; 1934 5; 1936 - 2; 1939 - 2; 1940 - 6; 1946 - 1; 1948 - 2; 1949 - 5; 1950 - 17; 1951 - 4; 1953 - 22; 1954 - 18; 1955 - 25; 1956 - 4; 1957 - 3; 1958 - 2; 1959 - 2; 1960 - 5; 1961 - 6; 1962 - 3; 1963 - 6; 1964 - 3; 1965 - 4; 1966 - 1; 1968 - 1; 1970 - 1; or a total of 1,646.


We shall give just a few examples of renamed places, rivers, mountains, rivers, lakes and mountains: The town of Voden was renamed Edessa; Rupishta - Argos Orestikon; S'botska - Aridea; Postol - Pella; Libanovo - Eginion; Larigovo - Arnea; Ostrovo - Arnisa; Vrtikop - Skidra; Valovishta - Sidirokastron, and the small settlements of Barbesh and Kutlesh into Vergina. The River Vardar was renamed Axios, the Bistrica - Alliakmon; the Galik - Erigon, etc. Lake Ostrovsko became Limni Arnisis; Lake Gorchlivo (Bitterly Lake) became Pikrolimi, etc. Mt. Pijavica was renamed as Stratonikion; Grbovica on Mt. Athos Agion Oros; Karakamen - Vermion, Kushnica - Pangeon, etc. The Voden district became Nomos Pelis; Gumendze district - Eparhia Paeonis; Valovishta district - Eparhia Sindikis; Zihnenska ditrict - Eparhia Philidos; Pravishka district - Eparhia Pangeu, etc.
Reply:WE, THE MACEDONIAN MINORITY IN GREECE ARE OPPRESSED BY THE ALL GREEK GOVERNMENTS.


WE LIVE UNDER SOCIAL PRESSURE AND HAVE TO CAMOUFLAGE INTO GREEKS IF TO EARN SOME SOCIAL STATUS.











The Athens ABECEDAR Case





By signing the Treaty of Sevres on 10th August, 1920, the Greek government undertook certain obligations regarding "the protection of the non-Greek national minorities in Greece". Articles 7, 8 and 9 of this treaty stipulated precisely the free use of the minorities' language, education, religious practice, etc. Bulgaria and the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes interested themselves in the implementation of this treaty, and when Greece realized it was in its interest to sign the "Lesser Protocols" (League of Nations, Geneva, 29th September 1924) on the protection of the Greek minority in Bulgaria and the reciprocal protection of the Bulgarian minority in Greece, Sofia launched a campaign in support of the activities initiated by the Joint Greek-Bulgarian Commission for the ,'voluntary" exchange of minorities. Large numbers of Macedonians were forcibly moved to Bulgaria, and Orthodox Christians from Turkey, Bulgaria and other places were brought to the Aegean part of Macedonia where, as Greeks, they took over the Macedonians' property. However, since this met with resolute opposition not only in Sofia but in Belgrade as well, the Greek parliament did not ratify certain relevant clauses of the "Lesser Protocols". In March 1925 the Council of the League of Nations concerned itself with the situation so created and addressed three questions to the Greek government, insisting particularly on a reply on the measures taken with regards to the needs, the education and the freedom of religious practice of the "Slav speaking minority" in Greece. These documents treated the Macedonians neither as a Serbian nor as a Bulgarian minority, but as a "Slav-speaking minority". In its reply the Greek government categorically denied the Bulgarian government the right to be interested in the "Slav-speaking minority", claiming that only the League of Nations could have and had the right to intervene with regard to the rights of this minority. Greece stated that no steps were taken for the protection of the "Slav-speaking minority in Greece" as it had been thought that the convention on reciprocal resettlement would result in "the moving of all Macedonians" beyond the borders of Greece. The Greek government also notified the League of Nations that "measures were being taken towards the opening of schools with instruction in the Slav language in the following school year of 1925/26" and towards granting freedom to practice religion in the Slav language. The primer intended for the Macedonian children in this part of Macedonia, entitled ABECEDAR, was offered as an argument in support of this statement. This primer, prepared by a special government commission and published by the Greek government in Athens in 1925, was written in the Lerin-Bitola vernacular (even though Bitola was not within the Greek borders!) but printed in a specially adapted Latin alphabet (instead of the traditional Cyrillic, which was the official alphabet of Bulgaria and Serbia). Many primers written mainly in Macedonian and intended for schools in Macedonia were published in the 19th century, but this was the first primer for Macedonians written and published by a legitimate government for its citizens and under the aegis of the League of Nations. This significant act on the part of the Greek government was condemned outright by both Belgrade and Sofia. The former proved that those for whom the primer was intended were in fact "Serbs", whereas the latter claimed that they were "Bulgarians". Bulgaria commissioned its outstanding philologists and Slavists to help its diplomats and Belgrade inspired petitions from two ailari villages (written in Serbian!) which were sent to the League of Nations. These petitions stated that the signatories were "Serbs by nationality" and that they demanded their rights "as a national minority" and also a "Serbian school" in order to "protect their language from enforced Graecization". At the same time, propaganda activities were undertaken among the population of these villages, promising free land and Serbian priests and teachers to those who declared themselves as Serbs. The Greek government's immediate response was another petition from the same village (Birinci), signed 16th October 1925, in which the signatories claimed that "in this region there are no Serbs, nor are there any Serbian institutions, and consequently the Serbian language is not used". The League of Nations used this statement to ask, in writing, the following question: the Greek government claims that this population does not speak Serbian, but does not say "what the language they speak in is". At the last moment before the deadline the Greek government replied by cable saying that "the population of these villages knows neither the Serbian nor the Bulgarian language and speaks nothing but a Slav-Macedonian idiom". Thus the Greek government officially recognized for the first time the separate national entity of the Macedonians within Greece's borders, which is also clearly confirmed by the pure language of the pnmer, ABECEDAR, published in Greece. Following the stormy and violent reaction in the press of the three monarchies the Greek government decided, with relief, not to introduce the primer, which was already published, into Macedonian schools.

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